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[Future Release] Removing Wh systems from the map/kills EVE API

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 16 post(s)
Harry Sullivan Amarr Technologies. 4	Posted - 2014.05.06 17:00:00 - [1] - Quote I`ll post from an HS alt as I`ll probably receive a lot of **** from the WH people. I am one of the people who like to play in unknown space / wormhole space and with multiple accounts. I`m also a carebear so I might look at the whole risk / reward thing a bit different than most WH pvp people. I highly welcome the change to remove information about NPC kills for wormhole systems in the API because I feel like the way W-Space was originally designed contradicts directly with you PvP people being able to use out of game tools to discover potential victims instead of the actual need to "discover" these opportunities while I as someone who rather fights sleepers as other people have no advantage using the API in the way you do. You say this will make it very hard to find PvP fights in the future and carebears like I am are less at risk because of it. That`s simply not true from my point of view. You are just too used to something you shouldn`t have had access to in the first place and probably lazy to find a better way to have great fights in between your groups and also deny yourself the great feeling of finding an inhabitated WH with capitals or other juicy stuff in it you can burn to the ground if you so desire. As a single player in a C5 Wormhole with multiple accounts I`m at risk any time, when I moved my stuff in incl. capitals. When I move stuff out. I had people roll into me specifically and extort me multiple times. I paid up, had a nice talk that I`d love to give WH PvP people a good fight but am a single pilot and rather support their PvP with a reasonable amount of ISK if they leave me alone, and people left me alone. But still, these opportunities mostly did arise for WH PvP groups because they didn't roll into me by accident or discover my hole but by using statistics they shouldn`t have access to in the first place. This can`t be in anyones interest at all. Neither mine as a PvE player, nor yours PvP players. I don`t think it`s very satisfying that you find your PvP by using tools and statistics rather than playing the game and exploring the "unknown space" that you all say you love so much. About the PvP aspects I don`t see any problems with that too. Why are you WH PvP groups not putting together an Intel tool you share with each other and coordinate wormholes you want to fight each other in instead of crying about CCP is taking easy targets away from you and actually want you to work for your kills and PvP? Anyway, I thought I`ll share my two cents on this and if this is going to happen I`m really thankful for it FoxFour, just like the rest of the great work you did with the API so far. P.S: English is not my mother tongue so I`m sorry if I caused any accidential eye cncer or brought the inner language naz show up in someone.
Harry Sullivan Amarr Technologies. 6	Posted - 2014.05.06 17:29:00 - [2] - Quote Bane Nucleus wrote: Harry Sullivan wrote: Why are you WH PvP groups not putting together an Intel tool you share with each other and coordinate wormholes you want to fight each other in instead of crying about CCP is taking easy targets away from you and actually want you to work for your kills and PvP? Are you suggesting arranged fights? If you are, I would say you missed the entire point of being in wormhole space. So what you are basically saying is: As WH PvP entity we use 3rd party tools to arrange for ganks / fights and use statistical data to have the upper hand on anyone that might live in the chain we rolled into that is either not interested in PvP in the first place or doesn`t have the knowledge / access to the tools we use and gets zero advantage from using it even if they wanted to. But to hell with you if you even mention that we could arrange fights in between our groups for the sake of having good fights and PvP in WH space if CCP removes the data that enables us to have "arranged fights" in the first place. Because if you like to hear it or not, gathering intel from a 3rd party tool that enables you to sit in your POS in safety while getting info about the exact timeframe the other party might be active in and getting a good guess at what they might be flying is actually "arranging a fight" too. But thanks for educating me about the point of being in wormhole space. Well done.
Harry Sullivan Amarr Technologies. 6	Posted - 2014.05.06 17:49:00 - [3] - Quote Querns wrote: Harry Sullivan wrote: But to hell with you if you even mention that we could arrange fights in between our groups for the sake of having good fights and PvP in WH space if CCP removes the data that enables us to have "arranged fights" in the first place. How does removing NPC kills/hr data from the API somehow preclude two wormhole corporations / alliances from having arranged fights? Wormhole connection maps are curated manually; just wait until the chains connect, then duke it out in an e-honorable fashion as much as you like. I added "So what you are basically saying is:" in front of my reply to clarify if the text following after that was what he`s trying to tell me. Because as said in the reply before, from my point of view there is no problem of having arranged fights in W-Space between groups if they wanted to and I also don`t see how that missed the point of W-Space gameplay. I also think the best PvP you can have is with people who are actually willing to PvP themselves. But a lot of people in W-Space are actually there to enjoy the PvE aspect just as there are groups who mainly do PvP and enjoy that. The problem is that Group A doesn`t have any advantage or use of the data group B is able to aquire from the API to interfer actively with Group A`s gameplay experience while doing nothing to actively aquire those statistics. I`d be totally fine with a deployable that replaces the API function in question in a modified way, also I think that the WH PvPers are totally right about that it`s sometimes too easy for me as a w-space carebear to avoid fights / tackle etc. Still I think it would be the right decision to remove the function in question because the reasons for it are actually more than valid.
Harry Sullivan Amarr Technologies. 11	Posted - 2014.05.07 05:14:00 - [4] - Quote John Caldr wrote: Once again, NPC alt without real WH PVP or WH life experience talks about things he know nothing about. How dare you doubt the ultimate wisdom that John Caldr is spreading around these forums . Let`s not forget John Caldr knows every person playing EVE and can judge properly if you are an experienced WH PVP / Life experienced pilot only by taking a look at your "NPC alt". I am too lazy to quote this a few times more, but he did this multiple times in this thread with absolute pinpoint precision. John Caldr also doesn`t need the API info in question at all, his Chuck Norris like ability to sense carebears around New Eden also allows him to perfectly log off trap anyone and anything in eve like a real boss. Therefore I really don`t understand why he disagrees with removing the NPC kills from the API for WH space, I suspect he`s only trolling big time laughing at the inferior Blood Union who do not posess a member of his skill and powers. He got you good BU. He got you good. John Caldr wrote: All WH PVPers agreed that this feature helps create PVP content. John Caldr is also not only the spokesperson of all WH PVP people that exist and superior to anyone in the CSM or the people actually designing and shaping this game. John Caldr wrote: if you go for numbers - you can farm 80billions in few days with just few hours per day and only 2 people. He is also holding a large number of all Titans in the game as he farms a new one every three days or so. He`s also the famous creator of the how to earn 80B in two days with only two people guide that is including tips on how to not loose your capital to a super elite Quantum Explosion log off trap which I`m unfortunately not able to link here because you "Farmers" are not elitist enough to even lay an eye on the word of the prophet. John Caldr wrote: Farmers store nothing on poses and dont care about them. So it hardly affects bad people. Groups only looking for PvE" should stay in hisec and avoid dangerous wormhole space that contains PVP. In his ultimate wisdom John also decided that those low life Farmers and groups looking for PvE are not only "bad people" but should stay in HiSec and avoid dangerous wormhole space to not interfer with his supreme Sleeper PvP. Or like John would say John Caldr wrote: You see, you cant have cake and eat it too. Now, get your hands off the cake! Cake is not for eating! Seriously GTFO John. Now that we all had a great laugh about the incredibly intelligent, tolerant and allknowing John Caldr can we get back to a meaningful discussion about the topic? It`s not the point if you are a PvE or PVP player in W-Space. The point is that we had access to data that the original designer totally admitted was never intended to be in the API and you made good use of it. But it ultimately collides with the decision CCP makes on how they want the Wormhole Experience to be, and I`m sure they have a good reason to make this change to improve the game for everyone in Wormholes in the future. But instead of telling people how bad it is that you had to actively discover and chase targets and put a lot more time and effort into hunting than right now I hardly see anyone making any suggestions that would me as a game designer even think about how I could create an alternative or compromise to still achieve content creation for the people mainly doing wormhole PvP. EVE is not a game for whiny b**es and we all know that, instead use your experience with WH PvP and the challenges W-Space creates for it to relay meaningful feedback and a thought process behind it to FoxFour who is actually reading most of your sht and actively thinking about how to make this a better game for you guys. So stop threatening with unsubscribing and blaming people for rather doing PvE than PvP content. Get your brains working and focus on a solution that would still enable you to do what you like to do but doesn`t create a severe disadvantage for the people doing PvE in W-Space. Just my two cents.
Harry Sullivan Amarr Technologies. 12	Posted - 2014.05.07 05:31:00 - [5] - Quote RudinV wrote: Try wh cap pvp before posting here. Would make more sense. Right, because my "inferior" WH cap PvE and almost 8 years in nullsec doing cap PvP doesn`t allow me to make an educated guess about WH cap pvp at all. Sorry! I totally forgot that WH Cap PVP is an absolute rocket science only an elite circle of people can do and know about. Sometimes I think you forget you play a PEGI 12 game not a quantum physics simulator.

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